It is also used for fire sprinkler systems because of its strong resistance to heat. I'd go threaded pipe all the way. Though it usually sports a distinctive yellow jacket, some manufacturers distribute their CSST with a conductive black jacket. Do You Trust... Titeflex’s misleading efforts to change the rules for their own benefit and push a flawed design for an unproven product? CSST piping should NOT be confused with flexible appliance connectors attached to moveable appliances like ranges and dryers. Great video explaining CSST and its cost & benefits vs. black iron pipe. Recent changes in plumbing code in the past few months has allowed for CSST to be used here, but most plumbers do not use it and most of the supply houses do not stock it. If there are lots and lots of bends, twists, and turns, then CSST and soft copper might massacre black iron. Most fires are caused by cooking equipment, heating equipment, electrical equipment, etc. Installation. That being said, I prefer iron pipe. Safe enough? As CSST becomes more and more accepted by professionals, the cost of the material will drop and this will benefit you the consumer. CSST easily snakes into attic and basements areas, around corners and bends, and through walls. Saved by Angela Nugent. Series installation is almost the same as typical black iron piping, whereby a large main pipe supplies gas to small branch pipes, which feed each appliance. Facebook 0 Twitter LinkedIn 0 0 Likes. Do You Trust... Titeflex’s misleading efforts to change the rules for their own benefit and push a flawed design for an unproven product? You also have to consider volume and pressure, low pressure systems require a larger pipe diameter and are not a good candidate for csst unless your gas company can upgrade you to a high pressure system. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Don't advertise or try to compare pricing, thanks, Press J to jump to the feed. It's the time tested standard and will stay that way, imo. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. What do you guys feel about csst? Next. I don't think they are trying to screw you on labor costs if that's what you're thinking. All TracPipe ® CounterStrike ® CSST products are listed by CSA under the ANSI LC 1 Standard. All TracPipe ® CounterStrike ® CSST products … I bought my 1920's house after it had had a pretty good fire in it and rebuilt it. ANSWER: CSST is often coated with a yellow, or in some cases, a black exterior plastic coating. CounterStrike ® was designed with inner diameters that are very close to black iron pipe and offer the industries’ highest flow rates, which can often result in using a smaller tube size resulting in significant cost savings. Mike McNulty January 14, 2021. Black jacketed CSST pipe is arc resistant, something discussed further on in this article under the heading “Is Corrugated Stainless Steel Pipe Dangerous”. CSST is alleged to have an increased risk for lightning related fires. 1” diameter pipe or greater- 8’ apart. I use Gas Tite. My question is this: can a gas flex line be used to connect to the black iron pipe in the basement,and then come up through the kitchen floor between the stove and the wall. Black iron pipe is very labor intensive. Copper was not aloud in most places, but now is, & according to some is not aloud in their areas any more. CounterStrike ® was designed with inner diameters that are very close to black iron pipe and offer the industries’ highest flow rates, which can often result in using a smaller tube size resulting in significant cost savings. Gastite cuts labor cost when installed by a trained Gastite installer. There are varied opinions over CSST's fire risk and it has been involved in litigation. For instance, if you look at our HomeFlex CSST Design & Installation manual (available at HomeFlex.com), page 49 chart 7.11 shows the flow capacity of schedule 40 metallic pipe. CSST offers flexibility and is able to be snaked through walls and around obstacles with fittings placed only at the ends of the run. Manifold method Also to clarify: the gas pipe will be exposed for now (in the sense that it's being installed in the corner of a niche along the wall) but the plan is to build a built-in bookcase with wide decorative molding disguising a hidden side compartment that opens to reveal the pipe, so it's easily accessible for maintenance. Flexible gas connectors are used to connect your appliance, furnace or water heater at the end of your new gas line. q) When a CSST system is repaired or when equipment supplied by a CSST system is replaced the system shall be bonded to meet the current bonding requirements in place at the time of replacement. Buildings with CSST should be inspected by … Iron Pipe Home Appliances Black Home Appliances Black like good old black steel pipe. Because each has different limitations, it important to be able to determine which one you are looking at. From my research, and from the answers here, it seems like far more of a known quantity, and the channeling of an explosive through my house is not an area in which I'm inclined to take risks. (back to top) QUESTION: What does CSST look like? It's important to realize you need to think about overall safety. Black iron pipe vs. gas flex line. q) When a CSST system is repaired or when equipment supplied by a CSST system is replaced the system shall be bonded to meet the current bonding requirements in place at the time of replacement. Improperly installed csst can be dangerous. Caveat emptor. Ask MetaFilter is a question and answer site that covers nearly any question on earth, where members help each other solve problems. If you had to install a gas line in your mother's house and you were proficient in both systems, which would you choose? To all who responded, thanks. Neither were the original galvanized iron water pipes. CSST is more expensive than “black iron” gas pipe. Black iron pipe is very labor intensive. Mike McNulty December 7, 2020. CSST is a gas distribution system like good old black steel pipe. One small subset of lightning fires are lightning fires where natural gas or propane was the material firs… -Black iron pipe schedule 40 or thicker with only black malleable fittings (NO GALVANIZED PIPE OR FITTINGS ALLOWED)-Polyethylene pipe for underground installations only-Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing CSST-Steel tubing DESIGNATED and rated for natural gas by use of flare fittings only" Remember, the copper tube allowed in Canada must be the type rated for Natural Gas, regular retail … Just wondering. In case anyone ever reads this question later, I wanted to follow-up to say that I decided on the black iron pipe over the CSST. Contact Us. The consensus is that while black pipe is laborious to install, its cheaper than csst as far as material and gives them piece of mind of a proper safe install. I did ask about csst since it was easier to install and could save some money on the labor. Saves time – 60% time savings vs. steel pipe fitting; Cleaner and easier to handle than black steel pipe THANX. ANSWER: CSST is often coated with a yellow, or in some cases, a black exterior plastic coating. Side by side comparison of two widely available CSST systems. If this system is used or installed improperly, fire, Id recommend pulling a permit regardless of choice in material, so that you can have piece of mind that the job was done correctly. Manufacturing materials are: ASTM A240 type 300 corrugated stainless steel tubing with a minimum … Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing (CSST) is a flexible, stainless steel pipe used to supply natural gas and propane in residential, commercial and industrial structures. They are just worried about liability. Watch this video to learn more about CSST safety and risks. I would want threaded black pipe if i ever wanted to add some gas appliance later it would be easier to take a fitting apart and add. That listing is not recognized by any national building codes or … The guy willing to install steel pipe and the guy who is preaching that steel pipe is better is probably the more experienced plumber who's going to do the better job and it's the end of the day that matters most. Lightning surging through improperly grounded and bonded CSST can arc, puncture a hole in the line, ignite the gas inside and cause a fire. Ask MetaFilter is where thousands of life's little questions are answered. p) CSST used to repair an existing black pipe system shall be installed to meet the connector requirements as stated in Section 411 of the 2009 International Mechanical Code. Much easier to work than steel pipe, uses fewer fittings, and weighs a lot less too. A common CSST sheathing color is yellow. Black is the industry standard. Previous. Manifold method What about the bonded csst with the wire mesh layer between the two jackets? Mike McNulty January 5, 2021 Comment. Re: gas pipe - old school vs. new school; Author: westchester plumber It depends on the application and if it is permitted in your area. Some believe that CSST is more likely to be pierced by lightning than “black iron” pipe. It's durable, any (skilled) plumber can work on it, and if you need to tighten a fitting or two, odds are you have the tools in your garage to fix it Corrugated pipe would be good for a long run of pipe, but for wall penetrations it still needs to be hard pipes, at least in my area. There is also Pro Press Gas and Mega Press Gas to lob out a couple other options. Watch this video to learn more about CSST safety and risks. Series installation is almost the same as typical black iron piping, whereby a large main pipe supplies gas to small branch pipes, which feed each appliance. A 10' run of 3/4" would yield enough gas to support 360k btu/h. A typical black iron pipe installation requires a professional to precisely measure, cut, and thread the individual pieces of pipe. That being said, Trac Pipe has more capacity in CFH, than GasTite does. He doesnt like the bonding system and think its wont help. The bids for black iron pipe were largely pricier, although not uniformly so, and at the moment it looks like I will be going with a master plumber who will do it in black iron for under $1000 (although most of the bids were several times this). (CSST).” This standard applies to natural and propane gas piping systems using CSST in residential, commercial, or industrial buildings. Here are some ways to distinguish between CSST and FAC. As CSST becomes more and more accepted by professionals, the cost of the material will drop and … 2. Most of the time, the end cost of installation is about the same. People using tracpipe are really just trying to increase their profits in my opinion and that doesn't do much for the customer at the end of the day unless they actually passed significant savings on to the consumer. Previous. Black pipes are also called steel pipes and are used to carry water and gas from their sources to the end users. How widespread is CSST? Sales of CSST in the U.S. began in … I've read a lot of horror stories about the CSST and its past issues, so I am thinking of having them rip this out and put in the standard black pipe instead. Hi, Jack - No, 3/4" black pipe would have more flow capacity than our corresponding 3/4" CSST. When I look at this CSST stuff and a piece of iron pipe side by side, I have a lot more confidence in the iron pipe holding up to an arc than this flimsy CSST. I would not hesitate to use CSST unless there’s some other prohibitive issue like long runs that would require higher pressure, necessitate a manifold, additional regulators or something along those lines. Don’t confuse a flexible gas connector with CSST pipe. 9 years ago. A common CSST sheathing color is yellow. Flashshield is the way to go. CSST pipes can be damaged by lightning. The solution is to run a bonding/grounding wire along the pipe to have a path for electricity. 3,067 Posts #7 • Feb 9, 2012. FREE DOWNLOAD. Join 6,549 readers in helping fund MetaFilter. Tubing is available in sizes of 1/2”, 3/4″, and 1″. All of these steps are very time-consuming. CSST is approved for use as a gas piping material in all national model building codes, including the National Fuel Gas Code, the International Fuel Gas Code, and the Uniform Plumbing Code, and is approved for use in all 50 states. Found 8 or so leaking joints. CSST is the new kid on the block, expensive pipe & fittings, but quick installation. Black iron gas pipe is typically 0.12" in thickness. ANSWER: Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing (CSST) is a flexible, stainless steel pipe used to supply natural gas and propane in residential, commercial and industrial structures. Mike McNulty January 5, 2021 Comment. Thinking his opinion was unique, I asked around and got some more opinions. CSST is thin — about .2 mm, or the thickness of two sheets of paper — compared with 4 mm for black pipe. It's important to realize you need to think about overall safety. Lightning striking a CSST gas line system can be extremely dangerous. CSST does not have enough metal in it to efficiently pass electrical charge through it. Post Reply. If there are lots and lots of bends, twists, and turns, then CSST and soft copper might massacre black iron. Unlike heavy traditional rigid back pipe, CSST is a light and flexible gas piping system that goes by a variety of brand names in the U.S. market. Regardless of material if it passes the pressure test id be more than comfortable with it in my house. The wide sweeps required by flexible pipe or simply having to slowly work it into the spots do you need it without kinking it is actually a pretty big pain in the ass and working with coiled pipe is always a pain in the ass. The traditional natural gas plumbing pipe, black iron pipe, safely encases a natural gas supply within a thick-walled, metal pipe. Plus, Gastite offers the ideal underground gas piping system. Put another way, the walls of black iron pipe are 15 times thicker than the walls of CSST tubing. 64k???? CSST gas line is extremely thin, with walls typically around 0.008" in thickness. The electricity will try to run through the little bit of metal that there is available, but will basically melt tiny holes in the pipe from the passing electricity. It seems more likely they're going to take the labor savings from tracpipe and pocket it, not pass it on to the consumer. Facebook 0 Twitter LinkedIn 0 0 Likes. The HOME-FLEX fuel gas piping system employs corrugated, flexible, semi-rigid stainless steel tubing with brass attachment fittings terminating in NPT pipe fittings for integration into traditional black iron pipe systems or direct connection to gas systems. Csst meets the requirements of the uniform plumbing code when properly installed. What do you guys think of this Gastite black piping? CSST vs. Black Iron Pipe; CSST and Lightning; The CSST industry continues to extend the safety track record of CSST piping with product developments that provide enhanced protection. Reactions: MTN REMODEL LLC. Straight length of pipe and fittings give you the maximum flexibility because you can make hard 90 degree turns in the tightest spaces without kinks. These require special fittings and tools that few guys have available however. When black iron pipe is installed, every time the pipe changes direction, a joint needs to be fitted and checked for leaks. Accidental nail strikes don't easily puncture iron gas pipe, and it takes extreme force to bend or break the pipe. More plumbers and some hvac guys and none of them like csst for the same reasons. That means if your house is struck by lighting, it's possible for an appliance at one end of the piping to get charged to 10,000 volts or something absurd and the other end to not have a charge. Great video explaining CSST and its cost & benefits vs. black iron pipe. Agree/disagree? Nobody can say that for CSST because it hasn't been around that long yet." They will all charge you roughly market value. Pressures and type guages used. QUESTION: What is CSST? That listing is not recognized by any national building codes or … The furnace cabinet metal is bonded where the 120V branch circuit enters. Black iron gas pipe is typically 0.12" in thickness. My plumber suggested we stick with black threaded pipe. Call your local rep and ask him for the name of his best contractor who uses it day in and day out. If the CSST is installed to code and per manufacture instructions it will perform to spec. Black Pipe Black steel pipe is different from galvanized pipe because it is uncoated. A strike on or near a building can travel through the structure’s piping system and cause a damaging power surge that can produce a gas leak or fire. When roof mounted it must be 3” or more off the roof and supported with appropriate clamps and no less than 6’ apart. See the chart. The inner stainless steel layer of typical residential CSST is .2 to .3 mm thick while the wall thickness of typical residential “black iron” gas pipe is 3 to 4 mm thick. Keeping homes & families healthy. According to the National Fire Protection Association, there are on average about 370,000 fires to residential buildings in the United States every year. Boils down to the thicker wall of iron pipe being able to carry current caused by a lightning strike without failing. A typical black iron pipe installation requires a professional to precisely measure, cut, and thread the individual pieces of pipe. The dark color comes from the iron-oxide formed on its surface during manufacturing. You will have to get bids and see how it all turns out. We tried to tighten them but in the end it was just easier to replace. It will run about 45 feet (inside the house) from the gas meter in the basement all the way to the attic. Put another way, the walls of black iron pipe are 15 times thicker than the walls of CSST tubing. Are they being overly cautious, probably, but they're the ones getting sued if your house explodes. I like black pipe more than csst, but when you say attic and crawl space, I will slam that shit in faster then passing condoms out at a whore house. CSST vs. Black Iron Pipe; CSST and Lightning; For decades, schedule 40 black iron pipe was the default choice for piping gas to furnaces and water heaters. Black iron is the fool-proof old solid standard. It is also much more expensive to install; especially in a renovation/retrofit situation. Recommendations for a new water heater / brand? 3.2.3 Sizing Hybrid Systems-Black Iron and TracPipe ... 7.2 Sizing Table For Steel Pipe ... 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Which is smart referenced some homes in the end it was easier to replace your CSST system inspected by trained! Offers the ideal underground gas piping, this is definitely not DIY are on average about fires. Not to like, other than maybe having to look for experienced plumbers, which is smart the process installing. End cost of the most affordable gas plumbing pipe, safely encases a natural gas into homes and.... One you are looking at time – 60 % time savings vs. steel is! Pipe to have an increased risk for lightning related fires iron question goes break the changes. Buildings in the basement all the way to go to carry current caused csst vs black pipe cooking,... Metal pipe of some old black steel pipe fitting ; Cleaner and easier to.!